Talk:GlovePIE:GlovePIE
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[edit] Perfect replacement for a mouse?
I saw a lot Wii remote on a PC videos lately where only the tilting was supported. Is it possible to use the Wii remote like it is used on an actual Wii? I mean, is it possible to point at a location on the pc screen and click there? I can't test it for myself because I don't own a Wii and I'm thinking about buying a Wii remote and a sensor bar just for the PC. RotNevni 18:25, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
[edit] Donation
Is anyone opposed to removing the Donations link? GlovePIE is a) no longer in development and b) objectionable to the open source nature of the board. It's a helpful program, and does belong on Wiili, but I'm not sure the wiki should be raising funds for anything other the Wiili.org.
I'll come back and remove it myself in a few weeks if there is no objection. --Fortunzfavor 16:24, 4 August 2007 (EDT)
[edit] Scripting
I have been looking into creating and/or updating GlovePIE scripts to more accurately imitate a mouse. I am linking up the microsoft page on mouse ballistics.
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/input/pointer-bal.mspx?pf=true#point1
I just watched some videos where they use the accelerometers to control the mouse and there is a noticeable delay between turning the remote and seeing a response. This appears to be in part because people are using the acceleration sensor values to directly control movement. Some better options might be:
- use the position angle (using arccos)
- add the derivative of the force values to the force variable
Here's another link on pointer movement, which shows how adding a derivative term speeds up the response: http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/barrett/neginertia.html
The best solution will probably be a combination of a few terms (force, position, etc) summed together, but people will have to experiment to see what contribution each should have.
Can GlovePIE handle derivatives and integrals? Wiimote 21:04, 12 December 2006 (EST)
Wow.. This page was not updated in a long time. I've added the gx, gy, and gz values with a short description to the acceleration section.--Coolbho3000 14:17, 9 January 2007 (EST)
What is rate at which GlovePIE receives accelerometer data from the Wiimote? More precisely, if I say the following: outputtofile(Wiimote.gx "," Wiimote.gy "," Wiimote.gz) what is the number of readings I receive per second? rnxgn 16:53, 31 March 2007
[edit] Really GNU license?
I've been checking WiiLi on occasion for a while now, and I am glad to see that the attrocious disclaimer was removed. I never even downloaded GlovePIE because I found it offense, not (only) in a political sense, but as a slap in the face to the idea of open-source programming. However, I am slightly dubious of the implication that GlovePIE is licensed under GNU/FDL, as I have now downloaded and read the readme file included with the app, and cannot find mention of a specific license anywhere. Only, at the beginning, another list of mostly arbitrary list of conditions. Also, isn't FDL for documentation, and GNU GPL for code? I've only a passing knowledge of the licenses, so correct me if I'm wrong. I would like to play around with GlovePIE and my own Wiimote, in an attempt to add convenient media controls for my XP:MCE PC, however, I will not use the program until I am sure that whatever version I am using has been stripped of any rediculous misuse of a "license." --Author X 17:41, 26 January 2007 (EST)
Thank you to the above poster. I would like to note that a legal license is not the correct medium for explaining political reasons behind the conditions of the license. Explaining why Glovepie "cannot" be downloaded in Israel, or by missionaries, is perhaps good content for a manifesto, but is totally inappropriate for a license. The author of this license should have known this, and should be ashamed of the unprofessional quality of his license. Additionally, at one point, the license said that the software "will give you an error" if used in Israel. As a computer scientist, I can attest that this is an outright lie - no unchangeable factor can identify the physical location from which a computer, unconnected to the Internet, is being used. Country code variables, etc, are easily user-alterable. Additionally, I question that Wiilii should provide links to, support for, or publicity for, anything written with such blatantly anti-Semetic and anti-Religious overtones. I hardly think that a file hosted under a license of "Cannot be used by Atheists, or people trying to convince others of the non-existence of a deity" would be used. I hardly think that this license would be enforceable in Israel. Such enforcement would require a case be brought before an Israeli court, which would surely scoff at these restrictions. Further, if one is to say that the software cannot be used by missionaries, in order to remain consistent one must also demand that the software not be used for any educational purposes. Missionaries attempt to convince others of something which they believe to be the truth regarding a portion of the universe which they believe to be real and understandable. Educators of all kinds, whether they teach mathematics, biology, physics, do the same thing, regarding a different area of knowledge of the universe. In addition, the teaching of history explicitly overlaps between those teaching religion and those teaching secular history. What's more, I assume that missionary work is deemed by Mr. Kenner a "genocidal activity" because it destroys the cultural ideas of the culture to which the missionaries are teaching regarding religion. Similarly, if a primitive culture that thought that the world was flat, that man was created a thousand years ago, and that the universe consisted of elements of fire, water, air, and stone, were taught about biology, chemistry, and geography, the educators would be likewise destroying their cultural ideas, making that education equally genocidal. On a personal note: I do not violate the license agreement. I am not employed as a missionary, though I am a theist and would not hesitate to engage in a conversation regarding theism with anyone in my daily life - if that makes me a missionary, so be it. I am not in Israel. However, if I were in Israel, doing mission work, I would not hesitate to violate the license agreement. Such bigoted hatespeech has no place in the Linux community.
Well, yes, I am well aware of the absurd and offensive nature of the "license" - to use an ironic saying, you're preaching to the choir. However, I understand that WiiLi cannot ban GlovePIE or anything extreme like that, not only because GlovePIE is so widely spread, but it would be also somewhat hypocritical. However, I myself refuse to use the program on ethical grounds, not because I do anything listed in the license, or because I think it is, in any way, 'remotely' enforcable. So you see, I am not enquiring about any legal power Carl Kenner might have to enforce his license, but whether the license itself is still attached to the software in any way. Triforce seems to think so, but saying so on an unaffiliated wiki (afaik) does not mean that Carl Kenner has removed the offending message from his program - that is the only condition under which I would use GlovePIE (which I'm sure he doesn't care about, which is why I haven't bothered harrasing him or anything - just because he chooses to be an ass does not mean I have to - but it does matter to me) --Author X 13:55, 2 February 2007 (EST)
Gpl forbids arrbity restrictions like that some people can't use the software. If this limit is to remain in any form, GlovePIE can not be licensed under GPL.--Henke37 04:50, 12 February 2007 (EST)
Yes. Yes, that is exactly why I asked on the talk page. however, I have yet to see anything or anyone officially connected to GlovePIE actually claim it is licensed under GPL. That's my point - I'm not asking people to confirm that GNU licenses forbid arbitrary restrictions, but that any of them apply to GlovePIE in any way. And so far, I am forced to conclude that, as I suspected before, GlovePIE has never been licensed under any open source license, let alone GPL (or FDL which was the claim that started my inquery and is just ridiculous) --Author X 14:43, 12 February 2007 (EST)
Author X, you can Email Carl Kenner and verify the status of the licence: Carl.Kenner@gmail.com
As others have stated at great length, these stipulations in the licence are of course objectionable to every moral sentiment, and as a result I will not be installing any software writen by such an open bigot. However, I hope he invites Mel Gibson over for some exciting WiiMote action. --Incognitum
[edit] Move to a new namespace
I propose that everything related to GlovePIE is moved to a differnt namespace in this wiki. I propose that the name of the new namespace will be GlovePIE. The article urls will look like this:
http://www.wiili.org/index.php/GlovePIE:Some_Script
All existing articles about GlovePIE and it's scripts in this namespace should be changed into redirects to the new namespace, making the change completly transparent to the people who still are using the old urls. It is possible to make wikilinks to differnt namespaces, so there is no need to use normal http urls for links betwen namespaces.--Henke37 04:46, 12 February 2007 (EST)
[edit] Inclusion of the license?
The antisemitic, antireligious license is back. Is it inappropriate (asking the community, not CarlKenner) to take it down? In addition - the statement "If you try to run it in Israel, it will give you an error" is a lie.. Can we fix this? Jephthah
I'm split on whether or not it should be included. Although it does seem to encourage this kind of back-handed preaching, I do believe that if that is what the author of a program wants, his conditions should be noted. In addition, I kind of think people who would disagree with this kind of thing should be warned that it applies to GlovePIE. Mind you, I definately think it is innappropriate to change the wording to the opposite meaning, as has happened here before, as outright lieing/mockery is not what should be on a serious wiki page. At any rate, I think people should at least be aware of the license for their own sake, and I'm sure Carl Kenner wants them to be aware of it before using the program. Perhaps there should be a sentence or short paragraph simply saying that there is are controversial claims/conditions outlined in the readme? (Also, please do not claim that it is licensed under GNU anything or any other open source license, you can see the discussion above where I ask for proof of such claims, and get a few (angry/lengthy) replies that do not answer my question).--Author X 14:52, 19 February 2007 (EST)
Idea...Its been a while since I've looked into the status of Wiimote support for Windows, the platform for GlovePie...is there a program out there with near-identical purpose - ie, scripted binding to keyboard and mouse - even if its not as feature-rich, with a rational, civilized license? If not, perhaps I should make a public call for one on the forums, or return to attemts to write one. Of course, I mean simply for the Wiimote, not for the collection of deviced supported by GlovePie. Then, at the bottom of the GlovePie license we could add something like "This license has been deemed by the Wiili community to be discriminitory on the basis of nationality and religion. For those who object to supporting software licensed under discriminatory terms, please try X as an alternative to GlovePie." This would not outright prohibit GlovePie from Wiili, and would allow the ridiculous license to remain in place, since that's really (I can hardly believe it, in this age) the wish of the author. However, it would give people a choice to use software that is licensed fairly, and hopefully, fairness would win out in terms of download numbers. I really just wish that the first person who finished the problem of advanced Windows Wiimote support had been someone a bit less bigoted.
Finally, why is a Windows-only application on a wiki for using Linux on the Wii? GlovePie has nothing to do with Linux, and nothing to do with the platform of the Wii. Although its nice to have a place to get Wii-related software, this isn't "Wiiwin" or "WiimoteWiki." Is GlovePie's presence here really appropriate - not because of its license content, but because of the platform of the application? --Jephthah 20:21, 19 February 2007 (EST)
Not including the license is dumb. The author of the software released it with this license. You may find the license offensive, that is your right. But pretending the license doesn't exist just make it worse. If anything, you're hiding it from people who may choose not to use the software because they don't agree with the license. BTW, the license is NOT discriminatory against religion. Being a missionary isn't a religion. Also, the license is NOT discriminatory on the basis of nationality. It does not prevent Israelis from using it. Only people located in Israel (doesn't matter whether they're Israelis or not). Israelis can still use it when not in Israel. Also, most software coming out of the US can't be exported to, used in or used by citizens of US embargoed countries (Iran, North Korea, Syria, Cuba & Sudan I believe) according to the license. There are legal reasons for this, but such software have the same conditions and worse (they are indeed discriminatory based on nationality) when it comes to certain countries as this does to Israel. So it seems somewhat hypocritical for people to make it out like there's something unique or inherently wrong with the Israeli license condition Nil Einne 11:03, 2 August 2007 (EDT)
[edit] Clarification about the limitations to Israel + my own opinion
It was only two days ago when I learnt about WiiLi and the amazing progress in making the wiimote work with the pc. GlovePie sounded great, and when I heard that it works on other controlers, aswell as midi, which i found intruiging, i decided to download it, also since im planning to get a Wii soon and set the pc to work with it. Like any person excited about something, I missed the few lines regarding the licence and went right ahead and downloaded it.
This is what happens when you try to run GlovePie from Israel (=Israeli IP), with a hebrew windows, on a laptop from Israel (giving reference to the most likely signs for an Israeli computer, the last of which is the one that is currently confirmed.
I extracted the program, ran the exe and got an error whose code is 0xc0000142, and was directed via my browser to the website Boycott Israel, which informed me that the barcode of my laptop suggests it is produced in israel, and hence I am not allowed to use the program. If you'll enter the site you'll see its quite revealing about why and how to boycott israel. _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Above were only technical facts, below, is my opinion regarding the whole thing. You can either choose to ignore the lenghy bit bellow, but I do hope you'll be willing to read on, if the matter is truely at your interest.
I won't start going through the points made there, because it will take forever, whether they be smart, or even longer if they're ignorant. I'm Israeli, but that doesn't mean I think my country and its policies are perfect. You don't need to look at our foreign policy neccesairily to find problems. What I can say however is that for the most part, people aren't rooting for the deaths of Arabs, be they Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian or whatever other nationalities, and I believe it goes the same for these countries. If you need proof for that, all it takes is a short look around, because there are solutions out there, as well as people who are willing to find them.
But no solutions, negotions, or comming to terms can happen when extreme measures are taken. When your actions are based on personal interpretations, where you block the other side and have no humility in your beliefs, you cannot find solutions, and this is true for the extremist orthodox jews, the muslim terrorists, and boycotters. If you force your oppinions on people through extreme measures, the result is more hatred, and more extremism from the other side. Force does not lead to real compliance.
Now if Carl Kenner believes Israel is wrong in acting the way it is, then he should speak up! Though its true that I rushed through the site and that there is in fact a disclamer stating his opinions, you can hardly call this being clear. Taking such an extreme stance and not having people pissed off at you from step one is first being clear about what you think. The limitations of the programs shouldnt take a line under the download link, but should be written on the main page and in a clear licence agreement in an installer, if that is what he truely believes.
An better alternative, however, would be to say something about it. Its easy hiding behind an act such as a boycott, add a website with tons of reasons why and call yourself an activist for a cause. Sure, you'll easily convince like minded people, or people who don't care much about the complexity of the Arab-Israeli conflict, and prefer answers strait to their faces, but the fact is, THERE IS NO STRAIT ANSWER.
I do not pretend that civilian shootings, inhumane treatments done by Israelis is right, but I will never side with anyone who choses to kill inncent citizens, or anyone frankly, in order to force the other side to comply to its demands like terrorists do.
While I think that the Hezbollah uses terrorist methods against Israel in its fight against it, I see why it cannot be simply called a terrorist group considering its social activism and freedomfighting history within Lebanon.
The way to find solutions is to be willing to work them out, not force what we believe they are on people, without giving them, or ourselves, the benefit of the doubt.
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For anyone who has comments, I'd much prefer if you try and speak to me on my myspace, there I can be more certain that I'll notice what you say. If you want, I am willing to debate the whole deal, as long as it is in a civilized way, and as long as the other side can agree that there is no black and white, and hence we will not come to an answer, but that sharing oppiions can be rewarding nontheless.
Quite ironically, Intel has labs, as well as production facilities, in Israel. Should the license be extended such that those with Intel chips cannot use it? --Jephthah 20:09, 16 September 2007 (EDT)
